No account yet?
Subscription Options
Subscribe via RSS, or
 
Free Email Alert

Sign up to receive a daily e-mail alert with links to Dallas Blog posts.

New Site Search
Login
Bill DeOre
Click for Larger Image
Dallas Sports Blog
Local Team Sports News
NBA.com: Mavericks News
Texas Rangers News
DallasCowboys.com
Stars Recent Headlines
Good News Dallas
Lifestyles
Wisdom of our Founders PDF Print E-mail
by Paul Perry    Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 03:00 PM

The Founding Fathers were concerned about our nation being involved in long-term alliances with foreign powers. The founders of our republic were in favor of trade, so they were not, as some state, isolationists. They were, however, generally opposed to military alliances overseas. They simply did not wish to be drawn into military conflicts based on any treaty requirements.

The Founding Fathers wanted a foreign policy aimed at maintaining good commercial relations as much as possible but avoiding military commitments to other powers.

Most viewed that we should not fight on behalf of others’ liberty, but that we should be an example for others to follow. They also did not want our nation in material support of other regimes, nor dependent on them. Washington saw the need for temporary alliances, like our temporary arrangement with the French during the American Revolution, but he warned against permanent alliances. Jefferson warned against entangling alliances with foreign powers generally. The modern North Atlantic Treaty Organization comes to mind.

NATO was formed as temporary defensive alliance after World War II to oppose the Communist Soviet Union. Now it has morphed into a permanent alliance with multiple agendas. After the old Soviet Union and its alliance structure fell apart, NATO became a bureaucracy in need of a mission. That has worked to our advantage given our policy in Afghanistan. NATO troops are assisting us there.

In other ways, however, our NATO partners have often tried to use the old alliance to strengthen France and/or Germany’s position in the world militarily and diplomatically by leveraging (remember your tax dollars support NATO) their membership in NATO. Indeed, NATO is now being used to further military cooperation with the new Russia which militarily and economically is the most significant remnant of the old Soviet Union’s power base.

A recent NATO press release referred to "increasing interoperability between NATO and Russian forces."

As a nation, we abandoned the Founding Fathers’ view of foreign policy some time ago. Perhaps a good argument can be made that some modification to their original vision was necessary, due to the realities of modern weapons technology, but is the overall principle still valuable? I think it is.

International news wires report that the nation of Georgia in Central Asia is now at war with Russia over the province of South Ossetia. South Ossetia declared its independence from Georgia in 1992, but its independence has gone largely unrecognized by the international community. That province also borders the nation of Russia. Recent violence may have been initiated by Georgia trying to force control over the province.

Additional reports now indicate that Russia has not only intervened on behalf of the rebels against Georgia in South Ossetia, but also has invaded Abkhazia, an undisputed province of Georgia. The Russian navy also may be on the move in the Black Sea.

Wire reports indicate up to 2000 civilians may have already perished, most from Russian air strikes.

In all fairness to the Ossetians, it appears that they have a long history of opposition to being part of Georgia. In fact, they have operated independently of Georgia, complete with their own government in recent years.

One sticky part for the good ol’ USA is that we have friendly relations and what could be called low-level entangling alliances with both Georgia and Russia. Russia has to an extent supported our operations in Afghanistan. According to a NATO update dated March 23, 2006, Russia has allowed the leasing of large transport aircraft, in part supporting NATO efforts in Afghanistan.

Georgia, on the other hand, has 2000 troops in Iraq supporting our operations there. Should I say had? It appears 1000 Georgian troops are being withdrawn from Iraq due to the crisis, as of Friday. More important than the mere number is the fact that after the U.S. and Britain, Georgia has the third largest ground force commitment in Iraq.

Since we have working agreements with both countries, where does this conflict leave us?

NATO cares enough about its relationship with Russia that it even has a special NATO-Russian cooperation working group called the NATO-Russia Council. A July press release from the NRC refers to "collaborative efforts to improve transportation ... through Russia to forces in Afghanistan." The release also refers to "increased cooperation in naval operations."

As stated earlier, the Georgians will soon send 1000 troops from Iraq back to Georgia. Will they eventually send all their forces home? That would appear to be a logical assumption if they believe they need to protect their own nation.

Other logical questions: What will both parties ask us to do in order to support them in the conflict? To whom will we say no? How will that affect our efforts in the Middle East?

As president, Thomas Jefferson once faced a group of North African-based Muslim pirates known as the Barbary Pirates. In subsequent military campaigns, the pirates or state-sponsored terrorists – pick your own language – were gradually forced to give up their attempts to extort money from the United States and the enslavement of Americans. Unlike in Iraq, there was no attempt at long-term occupation of foreign land. Also unlike how we are now trying to do things in the Middle East today, we did not put our mission at risk by depending on questionable allies to support our long-term presence.

Many will argue that times have changed. I will argue that principles and the Founders’ vision still matter.

Share This Story on Facebook
Comments (11)add comment
...
written by RelicMM , August 12, 2008

I agree with you Paul. The UN comes to mind. I condemned it the day after it unfortunately came into assistance. Jefferson must have spun in his grave on that day.


...
written by RelicMM , August 12, 2008

Assistance instead of existence must have been a freudian slip. But its assistance has been a bigger problem than its existence


...
written by Paul D. Perry , August 13, 2008

I understand the slip, and I think I agree anyway.....


...
written by Rusty , August 13, 2008

Excellent points.


...
written by Dan Altman , August 13, 2008

I agree that the Founding Fathers were not isolationists. Having just fought a war with England, “entangling alliance" to them meant as a practical reality "alliance with the French." I'm sure that our first diplomats met with their French opposites and realized that France was going to be facing some internal problems within the next decade and that neither Louis or whoever replaced him would be a stable ally. None of the monarchies – Spain, Prussia, Russia or the others offered any real benefit. As a matter of realpolitik, there was little upside and tremendous downside to picking sides at that time in European history.


...
written by Publius , August 13, 2008

The issue that distinguishes us today from the day of our founders is oil, and more broadly speaking, energy. Our economy depends on oil, and we get north of 50% of our daily supply from foreign nations (who possess north of 95% of the world's proven reserves). That necessitates a large overseas footprint to ensure the free flow of it to our markets.

I agree that we *should* not engage in long term alliances, but the point is moot. Absent some miracle of technology & a revolution in our infrastructure that allows our economy to move w/out petroleum, our national interest requires aggressive maintenance of relationships with foreign powers.



...
written by MarkB , August 14, 2008

Publius,

I'm sure your comment made perfect sense in your head, but I'm not sure everything you were thinking made it into your comment.

How exactly does an alliance with Georgia or even Israel protect our oil interests?

Or do you mean to say that we need to be big and threatening in order to make sure the primary oil producers will continue to trade with us? If so, I'd like to see some supporting evidence that our overseas intervention actually helps our oil crisis...to everything I can see it really hasn't.

And why spend tons of money overseas on a huge empire that we can't maintain for the sake of a resource we can get at home if we'd just be willing to go get it?



...
written by P. Allen Huffhines , August 14, 2008

Paul, I agree with your comments. "Entangling allliances" have certainly not proved to be in the best interest of the U.S. in recent years. Our involvement in SEATO led us into Vietnam and the United Nations has shown repeatly to be no friend of the U.S.
Putin has been being squeezed by NATO and found this an opportune time to flex Russia's muscle. There is nothing we can do and it is showing our foreign policy to be efete. Without the military power of the U.S., NATO is a paper tiger and as a result of Russia's challenge the other nations will think twice about the value of their relationship with us.



...
written by Publius , August 14, 2008

MarkB,

You're definitely right... I didn't put everything I was thinking in the comment. And you've got some other good points, too... So I apologize for what is now a lengthy reply, but let me address your points in more detail:

I'll grant you that our relationships with Georgia and Isreal have far less to do with oil than other factors, and in both cases our relationships could clearly be scaled back.

It's worth noting that in both cases, oil plays at least a minor role. Any nation willing to work with American companies in the Caucasus region gives us a foothold into the oil available in & around the Caspian Sea. And Isreal serves as a potential launching point of US forces in the Arabian peninsula.

Of course, there are many many other reasons we're entangled in Israel (and Georgia), not least of which is our desire to support democracy in both nations. Regardless, I'd be perfectly happy to see less entanglement with both nations. There are other nations far more important for us to engage to protect our oil interests.

As to your second point: at face value, we don't need to be big and threatening to convince people to sell us oil. There's plenty of economic reasons for vendors to supply customers with a product from which they profit greatly.

But international shipping is a dicey business w/out the capabilities of the US blue Navy protecting those shipping lanes. This is a function we've recognized as necessary at least since Jefferson and the pirates of the Barbary Coast, and that is when the British Navy served as the global guarantor of international shipping.

Beyond that, there have been at least two times in our recent political history when oil vendors decided to act against their business interest and deny their customers products because they didn't like them. Much like signs that say: we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, the Arab states, and then Iran, decided they'd rather see us squirm than make money off of us. And today, those nations have more, other, customers to turn to if they decide to tell us no thanks. Beyond the refusal of service situation, Venezuela violated basic property rights to nationalize their oil industry, reaping profits secured by long and substantial US investments. Without some ability to enforce property rights, these problems would only be worse. And not just for us. Our "police" presence in the international arena provides a degree of property rights assurance for all nations, helping economies around the world grow around those rights. I certainly agree that we overstep -- and have overstepped in major and substantially negative ways in the last 8 years -- but the last time the globe lacked a force to protect international trade the world remained in the dark ages for several centuries, so it's doubtful that our oversees intervention is as harmful as you suggest.

In terms of spending more than we can afford to maintain our empire... I'd refer you to military spending as a percentage of GDP today vs spending from 1950 thru the 1970s, when our spending was almost double it's current levels... and so were our levels of taxation... and so was our level of annual economic growth. I'm all for the government not spending more money than it takes in, but the current budget imbalances have more to do with our lack of desire to pay taxes and our other entitlement programs than our overall level of federal defense spending.

And finally, w/regard to our lack of initiative in drilling for oil at home... I'm 100% in agreement that we need to be drilling in more places domestically than is currently allowed. But that doesn't solve the basic problem of supply. Even if we assume that better exploration will DOUBLE proven reserves in the US (which takes us to about 42 billion barrels), and you assume we are able to massively ramp up production to meet US demand of 20 million barrels / day, we still only have enough oil to satisfy US customers for 6 years. Use the figure of "technically recoverable" oil, which itself takes more energy to extract (as that does not mean economically recoverable), and you have less than a 16 year supply. So what would you suggest we do a decade from now when we're pretty well tapped out at home?

I suppose, at that point it suddenly becomes necessary to build that huge oversees empire. My preference would be to have us drive our electric cars and tell the good people of the middle east, west africa, venezuela, and the caspian sea region to manage their own affairs. But again, absent some miracle of technology & a revolution in our infrastructure, we won't have electric cars, nor enough electricity to power them. So I'd say we best keep an eye on what's going in the oil producing world if we wish to continue to have the key ingredient in an economy that employs our entire population and provides us all with enough food to eat.



...
written by RelicMM , August 14, 2008

Good point MarkB: Dependence on oil is a reverse euphemism akin to racism when you disagree with BHO.


...
written by MarkB , August 19, 2008

Thanks for your reply Publius, it is definitely well thought out, and I'll try to devote some attention to it in the near future.

For now though, I just realized that I never submitted the follow-up comment that I wrote to clarify the drilling issue, so I'll put that up now.

I should note that drilling at home is not the panacea everyone wants to make it into. Producing here has a cost in that the resources (money, people, materials) invested in producing it can't be spent on other things we probably want more.

Why make it ourselves when we can buy it? I find it hard to believe that the oil producing countries really want to sit on their oil and somehow the big scary USA is making them sell it anyway. (At least not over long periods of time.)

They produce it exactly so they can sell it. So they can make money. It does no good to them sitting in a storeroom somewhere and we're a ready buyer.

To update to reflect the statements by Publius - I know that they can find other buyers to sell to, but there's only so much demand in those countries and over time that's going to leave them with a surplus.

I grant that they can stop selling to us to make a political point. I think we have to ask why they would do that though. It's not like they started selling only to Muslim nations or nations that otherwise have none of the vices that we supposedly have.

Instead, it would seem to me that they don't particularly like our meddling interventionist foreign policy. We fix the foreign policy and they don't have any particular reason not to trade with us anymore vs the other people they currently trade with.

The longer they refuse to sell to us, the more money they lose, and the more opportunity there is for some other player in the market to decide he wants a piece of that pie and start providing to us.

As for Chavez, he has made his bed and now he has to lie in it. Nationalizing the oil industry was a stupid idea, and the stunts he is pulling will come back to hurt his nation badly. History is clear about the long term impact of this sort of government action, and if we don't do similarly stupid things, we'll live to see the fall of Chavez as well.





Write comment
smaller | bigger
password
 

busy
 
< Prev   Next >
 

© 2010 Dallasblog.com, the Dallas, Texas news blog and Dallas, Texas information source for the DFW Metroplex. - DALLAS BLOG
Joomla! is Free Software released under the GNU/GPL License.